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no proof exists that waterproof breathable exists

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R.E.I. FINALLY RESPONDED

What follows is the start of the conversation by me and the response. Melody’s first response came at 7:12 PM my time and the second response at 9:08 PM my time.

Do you have VERIFIABLE proof that materials spoken of as waterproof and breathable actually work as described by companies like w.l. gore, sympatex or event?

Hey Jerry,

Thanks for reaching out to us regarding waterproof membranes.

The waterproof membranes do go under extensive testing to determine their hydrostatic rating. If you would like to learn more about how they are tested and proven to be waterproof, please see the following link to our expert advice article on "How Does Waterproof Raingear Work?":

https://www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice/rainwear-how-it-works.html

If you would like to know specifically how GORE-TEX does their testing, please see the following link to their page on the process of testing and their standards:

https://www.gore-tex.com/technology/testing

Please let us know if there is anything else we can do for you and we will get back to you as soon as we can.

Happy adventuring!

Melody F.
REI Product Information Specialist

www.rei.com
PO Box 1938, Sumner, WA 98390-0800
Phone: 800.426.4840
Fax: 253.891.2523

Melody,

You did not touch on the breathability.

If I were to wear one of these garments with the membrane on a clear none rainy day and if I were sweating would the moisture actually get out of the garment?

I do believe the membranes do make the fabrics waterproof for the most part but it is the breathability that concerns me.

I look forward to your response.

Jerry

Hey Jerry,

Thanks for getting back to us regarding waterproof breathable membranes.

Please see the previous links sent to you for testing standards on these membranes. This will include information on breathability. For more in depth questions you may have, I recommend reaching out to the manufacturers directly.

See you out on the trails!

Melody F.
REI Product Information Specialist

www.rei.com
PO Box 1938, Sumner, WA 98390-0800
Phone: 800.426.4840
Fax: 253.891.2523

So you do not or REI does not have any verifiable evidence that the garments they sell actually allow the moisture out of the garment, correct?

The following response came to me from Kurtis, J.

Greetings Jerry

Thanks for reaching out to us.

REI stands behind all of our products when used for their intended purposes. However, we're unable to provide documentation related to our testing protocols due to proprietary information. Proprietary information is a joke unless the information says that it doesn’t work then they would not want to divulge it to anyone.

Also, I'm unable to comment for other manufacturers but you may want to contact Gore or eVent directly to see what other information they may have available.

I did go to the gore site as per melody and found they do not mention breathability or vapor permeability,seebelow.

Further, I can personally attest to the breathability of Gore-Tex, eVent and our Elements/Peak waterproof laminates. I've witnessed firsthand testing of Gore-Tex and eVent technology performed by representatives of both companies and can assure you both membranes are completely waterproof and breathable. Please keep in mind jackets made with waterproof membranes also use DWR(durable water repellant) coatings on the outer shell fabric. This coating works in conjunction with the membrane to provide optimal performance. However, the coating can be damaged by many factors including: perfumes, dirt, abrasion and sweat to name a few.

He got to see the impossible. As for his knowledge of DWR he has none. Imagine sweat can affect the performance of the membrane. Well if you didn’t sweat you would need such a garment but since you do sweat you will immediately keep the garment from working.

When the coating is not functioning because of one these or other factors the shell fabric can absorb water and become "wetted out", which limits the amount of perspiration that can escape and you become wet from the inside. To many consumers this appears that the jacket is leaking but in almost every case it's not leaking you just need to clean the jacket and dry it under heat. The combination of washing the jacket and machine drying it under moderate heat will reactivate the DWR so it can repel rain again. Eventually, after heavy use you may need to retreat the exterior with a spray-on or wash-in DWR treatment. To better understand waterproof/breathable garments I've included the link below to our Expert Article related to raingear works:

https://www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice/rainwear-how-it-works.html

I hope my email addresses your concerns.

See you out on the trail!

Kurtis J
REI Product Information Specialist

www.rei.com
PO Box 1938, Sumner, WA 98390-0800
Phone: 800-426-4840
Fax: 253-891-2523

The following information is taken directly from the gore web site that melody sent me the link too.

THE RAIN ROOM

Our very own weather machine. This sophisticated testing facility is designed to simulate a wide variety of rain conditions. Using specially engineered rain nozzles strategically positioned in the chamber, we test a garment's waterproof design in conditions that range from light drizzle to wind-driven rain.

The rain room test for waterproof ness is fine.

THE COMFORT TEST

Comfort is the state in which we’re neither too warm nor too cold, when there’s a balance between the heat we produce and the heat we lose. We compare laboratory measurements with personal feelings of comfort from our testers. This ensures best possible comfort for a wide range of activities and conditions.

If you go to this link and scroll down to picture of the guy on a tread mill titled comfort test he is probably sweating however they do not say look at the sweat getting to the outside of the garment. I suspect the guys personal feelings are I am sweating in this garment so I am not so comfortable.

As for Kurtis, J. response it shows that he has as much knowledge of the subject as a gnat.

As you can see the representatives of both bean and rei are so brains washed or fearful of losing their jobs if the contradict the company policy that they stick with the party line.

If these companies and so many others go the same route who can you trust? I know quite well both of these companies sell what they call sleeping bags that have zero chance of working at the temperatures they assign to them. Of course they say they are EN rated, you know european normal as if the European’s are normal.

All I can say is if you want a jacket that will keep you dry for the most part rain or shine you want a Ducksback jacket.

Now kurtis, j. is famous. Is melody her real name? 

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